Bloomberg Podcasts Sep 20, 2026
With Ben Sills, Managing Editor for European Economy and Government at Bloomberg News · Jennifer Hansler, Senior National Security Reporter at CNN
Saudi Arabia's crown prince has asked the US president twice in recent weeks to strike the Houthis, and been refused both times.
The week was billed as a diplomatic one, with leaders arriving in New York to talk about two wars. What the two reporters on this panel described was closer to a stress test of the alliances underneath those wars: a European Union that Ben Sills said is hollowing out, a United States that Europe has stopped counting on for its own defense, and a set of Russian attacks nobody is calling hybrid any more.
But when you're putting bombs in an airport, it's not really hybrid anymore. It's just an attack.
Ben Sills, Managing Editor for European Economy and Government at Bloomberg News, and Jennifer Hansler, Senior National Security Reporter at CNN, on Bloomberg Podcasts, cover the two beats the week turns on. Sills runs Bloomberg's coverage of European governments and economies; Hansler is assigned to Secretary of State Marco Rubio for the duration of the assembly and reports what the State Department will not preview.
The full segment is covered here so you can skip it.
Here are the 11 arguments that matter.
Key Takeaways
The Saudi crown prince asked for US strikes on the Houthis twice, and was turned down both times
Washington is supplying intelligence and targeting instead, and says its ceasefire with the Houthis still holds
The EU is hollowing out, Sills said, because none of its big members has a growth policy voters will back
The AFD in Germany and Marine Le Pen in France are collecting the voters the center lost
Russian attacks on Europe have stopped being deniable: half a dozen incidents in two months, including bombs at a German airport
Europe came to the assembly with one specific objective, air defenses for Ukraine
European officials are on yellow alert on energy going into winter, with gas short and less Saudi oil reaching refineries
Mark Carney would be "the perfect European", Sills said, but Canada is too small an economy to change the EU
If Rubio meets Lavrov and not the Ukrainians, Hansler said, the region will read the signal
1. Middle East Merry-Go-Round
The panel opened on what two weeks of meetings in New York might actually produce, with the US president due to meet Middle Eastern leaders. Sills said the talks have been switching on and off for months, and that the president appears to want an outcome.
The European leaders he covers are watching for one thing: the oil and the gas moving again
Well, I think on the Middle East question, we've been going round and round this kind of merry-go-round with talks on, talks off for a while now, and it does seem as if the president is keen to reach some kind of resolution.
Ben Sills
2. The Houthis Complicate It
The anchor turned to a report that the Houthis had tried to attack the Saudi capital, and to the frustration Hansler has been hearing from sources in the Gulf. Her point was that the two problems have fused: neither can be settled on its own any more.
The Houthis say their quarrel is only with Saudi Arabia, and Hansler said the US president has echoed that framing as a reason not to get involved militarily. What her sources object to is the idea that the group's recent gains were a surprise.
Iran's backing made the gains predictable, and they now block a Hormuz deal
But there is a frustration that these gains being made by the Houthis, which sources told me should not have come as a surprise given their backing by Iran, that this is going to complicate any sort of efforts to get any sort of deal on the Strait Of Hormuz, for example, any sort of peace settlement there.
Jennifer Hansler
3. The US Red Line
Asked what is front of mind for American military policymakers, given that past engagements with the Houthis have not gone well, Hansler gave the public red line and the private pressure against it.
Saudi Arabia's crown prince has asked for strikes twice and been refused
We have reporting that Saudi crown prince MBS had spoken twice with Trump in recent weeks urging him to take that kinetic action, and the president so far has rebuffed that.
Jennifer Hansler
What the US is supplying instead is intelligence and targeting
They have been offering intelligence, targeting support, that sort of support, but they have not crossed that red line into actually militarily striking the Houthis.
Jennifer Hansler
Washington still says its ceasefire with the Houthis holds
They still, according to our sources, have affirmed that they believe that that bilateral ceasefire that they reach with the Houthis is still in place today.
Jennifer Hansler
4. The EU As An Empty Shell
The anchor noted that Sills had written recently about the strains pulling at the EU, and asked whether it is a warning for other alliances. Sills gave a two-step account: a policy failure, then what the failure does to the politics.
No big member state has a growth policy that voters will also vote for
Well, I think the fundamental problem that the EU has is that on the one hand, the establishment parties have failed to come up with a policy proposal which can both revive economic growth and win the backing of voters.
Ben Sills
He named France, Germany and Italy as the cases.
The voters the center loses go to the AFD and Le Pen
At the same time, the longer that goes on, you get, more extremist parties like the AFD in Germany or Marine Le Pen in France who are gaining support from voters who feel like the center does not have an answer for them anymore.
Ben Sills
The result is an institution with no political power behind it
And the longer that goes on, it hollows out the support for the central European project. And with it that, the EU looks increasingly like a kind of an empty shell that doesn't have any real intangible political power behind it.
Ben Sills
5. Carney In Strasbourg
The anchor asked how much of a lift it was for the EU to have Canada's prime minister address the European Parliament, with speculation running about what associate membership would mean. Sills called the speech excellent and the conclusion deflating.
The leader Europe needs is running Canada
I thought it was kind of bittersweet because Mark Carney would be the perfect European. He's the leader that Europeans need.
Ben Sills
Canada is too small an economy for the speech to change anything
It would be a meaningful addition to the EU, but it's not a game changer.
Ben Sills
He put the size of the Canadian economy between Italy's and Spain's, and said the speech articulated a vision the broader European world, which Canada is now joining, wants to rally behind.
6. Rubio's Two Registers
Hansler covers Marco Rubio and is assigned to him for the assembly. The anchor's question was how a senator who favored multilateral institutions runs the foreign policy of an administration that does not.
In private he speaks the language of the people he used to legislate with
He's speaking to them in a language that they recognize from when he was a lawmaker.
Jennifer Hansler
In public, she said, his job is to implement the president's agenda, and he has said so repeatedly himself. She gave the UN as the test case.
The State Department wants the next Secretary-General to deliver massive reforms
We heard from a state department official saying that they want massive reforms from the next UN Secretary general, for example, that they haven't publicly backed any of the candidates, but they have laid out kind of a list of what they are looking for in that next leader of this body.
Jennifer Hansler
And it wants the International Criminal Court dismantled
And they've made no secret of their attacks not only on the UN, the International Criminal Court, which they are calling for its dismantlement.
Jennifer Hansler
7. Who Rubio Meets
Asked which counterparts Rubio is most eager to see, Hansler said the State Department has been unusually tight-lipped about his schedule, so what is known comes from the other side of the table.
Lavrov has said he intends to meet Rubio
We have heard, for example, from the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov that he intends to meet with the Secretary of state, and that is, of course, going to be a huge meeting, particularly if there's not an equivalent or even higher level meeting with the Ukrainians.
Jennifer Hansler
Zelensky is seeking another one-on-one with the US president, as he had last year. Hansler said the messaging shifted toward the Ukrainians immediately after that meeting, then shifted back and forth.
A Lavrov meeting with no Ukrainian equivalent is itself the message
So if that doesn't happen and there's only this Lavrov meeting, that will send a lot of signals to the region.
Jennifer Hansler
8. Not Hybrid Any More
The anchor asked Sills why European governments have suddenly converged on taking their own security seriously, from Macron to the central European capitals. Sills gave two causes, and the first is that the threat became physical.
Half a dozen incidents in two months, from Lithuania to the Black Sea
I think there are two things. There's definitely a much more tangible threat from Russia. Over the last two months, we've seen maybe half a dozen, incidents from drones being shot down over Lithuania, Russian drones found in the Black Sea.
Ben Sills
He added the airport in Germany to the list, and said the word security officials had been using no longer fits.
Bombs in an airport are not hybrid warfare
So we speak to security officials to say there's been what we used to call hybrid attacks. But when you're putting bombs in an airport, it's not really hybrid anymore. It's just an attack.
Ben Sills
The second cause is American. Sills said the US is clearly retreating from its security commitments to Europe, that the strategic review of troop deployments has still not appeared, and that the defense secretary delivered the message in Brussels last month.
Washington has told Europe to take responsibility for its own defense
And he said, we're looking for the Europe to take responsibility for their own security now.
Ben Sills
Europe knows there is a gap, he said, and is racing to fill it.
9. Europe's Yellow Alert
The anchor joined the two regions together: an attack on the East-West pipeline in Saudi Arabia means Europe will not get its usual volume of crude for refining in the month ahead. Sills called that incrementally bad rather than a disaster, and then widened it.
The bigger exposure is gas for the winter heating season
Europe's dependency on The Middle East and the global markets for its energy is one of its major strategic weaknesses. And it's not just oil. It's the gas supplies for the winter heating season as well, which are running short because of the war.
Ben Sills
Officials are on yellow alert, not yet in crisis
So Europeans are kind of, I'd say European officials are on yellow alert for their energy supplies going into the winter, but we've not quite hit full blown that crisis yet.
Ben Sills
10. Canada And The Tariffs
Asked whether the Americans and the Canadians will meet while everyone is in New York, Hansler said nothing has been previewed. The White House has flagged only a handful of encounters, one of them a pull-aside with Delcy Rodriguez, the de facto leader of Venezuela.
No Trump-Carney bilateral has been announced
We have not heard necessarily that there's going to be a bilateral between Trump and Carney.
Jennifer Hansler
If it happens, she said, it will be spur of the moment, and the relationship between the two neighbors is very tense. The anchor made the point that an absent US-Canada meeting would normally mean nothing at all, and that this is the one assembly where it means something.
Further import tariffs take effect within days
I think very fascinating because we're in this moment where there's a threat of these further import tariffs, going into effect in just a couple of days now.
Jennifer Hansler
The administration's line is that the door is open
And I think the messaging for administration is very much, look. There is this opening for talks to come back together, I guess, to continue, but for these two sides to talk once again.
Jennifer Hansler
Carney has spent the past few days in Europe, she said, and was in France that day.
11. One Goal: Air Defenses
The closing question was what Europe actually wants out of the week. Sills gave a single answer, narrower than the question invited.
Europe's objective is air defense equipment for Ukraine, quickly
I actually think they've got a very specific goal, which is to secure air defenses for Ukraine. The Ukraine war is the existential question for Europe, for European security going into the winter, and the Ukrainians are in a desperate situation with the Russian air attacks. So if they can get, supplies quickly, that will be a big win.
Ben Sills
Asked whether Europe is looking to the US to supply it, he widened the request to anyone who will.
They will take it from whoever offers
From The US and anyone.
Ben Sills
Bonus Insights
The answer on whether Europe will get them was a shrug
Asked whether Europe will actually secure the air defenses, Sills did not answer in words. The anchor described it for the radio audience as an exasperated shrug, then closed the segment.
Sills flagged a dynamic the panel never got back to
Mid-way through the Rubio discussion, Sills broke in to say the relationship worth watching is the one between the Secretary of State and Mike Waltz, the ambassador at the UN. The anchor redirected to a different question and the point was dropped.
The two guests cover the same building
Hansler noted, in the middle of an answer about the State Department's silence on Rubio's schedule, that she and Sills cover the department a lot together — a short aside the pair talked over each other to get out.
It was a live set, and the audience was told so twice
The anchor apologized on air for the noise of the event being built behind the panel, and the segment was recorded from the Plaza with world leaders arriving across the city. The anchor's own scene-setting was that traffic in New York is onerous and nobody can get anywhere.
The bottom line from the two of them is that the assembly is being used to manage two failures at once: a Middle East settlement the Houthis can now block without the US firing a shot, and a European security guarantee Washington has told Europe to replace itself.
Products, Companies & Tools Mentioned
The United Nations (The institution the week is built around; Hansler said the State Department wants massive reforms from its next Secretary-General and has not backed any candidate)
The International Criminal Court (The administration is publicly calling for its dismantlement, alongside its attacks on the UN itself)
The European Union (Sills's "empty shell": establishment parties in France, Germany and Italy with no growth policy voters will back, and the AFD and Marine Le Pen taking the voters they lose)
The US State Department (Rubio's department, which Hansler said has been unusually tight-lipped about whom he is meeting in New York)
Listen to the full episode
🔴 YouTube
Watch the full episode:
More Ben Sills interviews and podcast appearances
If this was worth your time, send it to someone who has to have a view on this.
Get the latest market chatter as it happens: