CNBC Sep 21, 2026 24m 10m saved
With Ari Emanuel, Executive Chair and CEO of TKO Group Holdings · Mark Shapiro, President and COO of TKO Group Holdings
TKO's WWE partnership revenue grew 2% in the first quarter and 8% in the second, against growth of more than 90% the year before.
Wall Street read that as sponsorship momentum breaking down. Mark Shapiro said it is a calendar, that the second half is where the multi-year global deals land, and gave a full-year number that is more than double the first-half run rate.
"This year, what you're seen is 2 and 8% respectively in the first two quarters because we have so many international events this first half of the year, which don't allow us to sell as much as many global partnerships as we otherwise would, but it's backloaded."
Ari Emanuel, Executive Chair and CEO of TKO Group Holdings, and Mark Shapiro, its President and COO, on CNBC, run WWE and UFC together and have just put their private vehicle into a deal for one of the largest theater owners in the world. Emanuel was also there for a memoir he wrote with J.R. Moehringer.
The full interview is covered here so you can skip it. 24 minutes of audio, 10 minutes of reading.
Here are the 8 numbers that matter.
Key Takeaways
WWE partnership revenue finishes the year up more than 20%, after 2% and 8% quarters that Shapiro says were a scheduling artifact The prior year grew more than 90%, because WWE was new to TKO and the UFC playbook had not been applied to it yet
The $30M margin hit from the White House fight was in the plan before it happened Shapiro values the earned media at a billion dollars and says that figure is conservative
Emanuel's private vehicle is buying a company with 70 theaters, across Germany, Spain, the West End and Broadway The thesis is a shorter working week making live events more valuable, not a bet on musicals
A Broadway musical now costs $20M to $30M to mount, and the host put it to them that most investors do not get their money back
Endeavor shareholders got a 60% premium, and Shapiro says some of the hedge funds claiming otherwise in Delaware broke the law
Emanuel does not accept that Netflix has a time-spent problem, and named the slate he thinks settles it
Ellison's Paramount commitments run to 170 series and $30B, which Emanuel says makes the state attorneys general case political rather than antitrust
TKO carries $15B of long-term contracts, and the pair bought into the Las Vegas Raiders at a $9.5B valuation
1. Why He Wrote The Memoir
David Faber opened on the book rather than the business, and Emanuel gave two reasons for writing it. The first is parents of dyslexic children, which he approached from both ends — he is dyslexic himself and watched his mother work through it with him.
The book is aimed at parents first
I think it's important for parents to read it, understand what it takes to help your kids, the anxiety you have
Ari Emanuel
The second audience is people starting out in business, and the thing he wanted them to get from it is that none of it is easy.
He says he wrote it without cleaning himself up
I was really honest and I hope you see that it's not easy
Ari Emanuel
He called the book a Thomas guide for someone starting out, the paper street atlas he used himself in the mail room. Faber said he had not yet reached a part where Emanuel takes anyone apart, and asked about Michael Ovitz and about Bill Haber, the CAA co-founder Emanuel worked for early. Emanuel said Ovitz is on Mount Rushmore and that they got together afterwards. Shapiro, cut off once, got in the anecdote he wanted anyway: Emanuel wrecking Ovitz's office on his way out to another agency.
The memoir was written with J.R. Moehringer, who wrote The Tender Bar and ghostwrote Andre Agassi's Open and Phil Knight's Nike memoir.
On the writer
J.R. Moehringer, who wrote Tender Bar, who wrote the Agassi book, Phil Knight, is one of the incredible writers, incredible human beings.
Ari Emanuel
Asked whether a memoir means he is finished, Emanuel said he and Shapiro had just started Mari together and that he is far from done.
What he says he is optimizing for
Would you like to have a life of meaning or a life of pleasure?
Ari Emanuel
2. The Sponsorship Pushback
Faber had seen Shapiro present at Goldman Sachs's conference the week before, and put the Wall Street case to him directly: partnership revenue grew 2% in the first quarter and 8% in the second, a sharp slowdown, and the market has read it as sponsorship momentum decelerating.
Shapiro's answer was that the comparison is against a year that cannot repeat. WWE was new to TKO, the UFC playbook was applied to it, and the easy deals were done in one go.
The slow quarters are the international calendar, not lost demand
This year, what you're seen is 2 and 8% respectively in the first two quarters because we have so many international events this first half of the year, which don't allow us to sell as much as many global partnerships as we otherwise would, but it's backloaded.
Mark Shapiro
The second half is where the global partnership deals take effect, he said, and they are multi-year, high margin and recurring. He gave a full-year figure rather than leaving it at reassurance.
The number he is willing to be held to
we will finish over 20% year-over-year increase on WWE partnership revenue for the year
Mark Shapiro
3. A $30M One-Time Hit
Faber turned to the other thing in the numbers: the margin hit TKO's finance chief quantified on the last earnings call, from the UFC event staged for the president's birthday around the country's 250th anniversary. The host put the figure at $30 million and asked whether it was worth it.
It was budgeted before it happened
that was actually in plan. We actually knew it was one of the great brand experiences of all time for us on a global basis. So, we had it in plan.
Mark Shapiro
Shapiro's argument is that the cost bought coverage the company could not otherwise buy, and he put a number on that too — a billion dollars of earned media, which he said he thinks is conservative. News outlets outside sports covered it, which is what he means by breaking into the mainstream.
The reach claim underneath it is the one that matters for the business: UFC is now seen in more than 200 countries and territories, live or on television under the new Paramount Plus deal, and site fees are rising everywhere.
Demand is now the thing being rationed
People are calling us from all over the world wanting us to come. We're kind of regulating that as it relates to our domestic and our international both for the WWE and the UFC.
Mark Shapiro
Asked whether he would do another fight at the White House, Shapiro said yes.
4. Buying 70 Theaters
Mari, the private vehicle Emanuel and Shapiro run outside the public company, has agreed to buy Ambassador Theater Group, and the deal is in regulatory review in London and in the United States. Faber asked why two men who already own WWE and UFC want more live exposure.
Emanuel dated the thesis to 2016, when he says they saw where sports was going, and said it has since widened from sports into live events generally. The reason he gave is the length of the working week.
The bet is that leisure time grows
we have believed for the last year and a half that live is going to become even more important and more valuable
Ari Emanuel
Shapiro set out what is actually being bought.
The estate
They have 70 theaters that they own and operate across Germany, Spain, 10 in the West End, seven in Broadway.
Mark Shapiro
He said theater attendance and spend are back to pre-pandemic levels, and that the West End drew more patrons last year than the Premier League did. Faber pushed on the economics: mounting a major musical now runs $20 million to $30 million, production costs have risen partly because theater owners charge a lot, and most investors do not get their money back — and Mari is buying in as a theater owner. Emanuel said they are listening to people in the business in New York, the West End and elsewhere before deciding anything.
Shapiro's answer was to widen what a theater is for.
The buildings are being repriced as venues, not as playhouses
So, it won't just be musicals, David. It'll be plays, it'll be influencers, it'll be live podcasts, it'll be music, and it'll be anything that content creators can bring to us.
Mark Shapiro
Why he thinks the pricing holds
But like sports and like content overall, demand is outstripping supply. There's real scarcity here.
Mark Shapiro
Emanuel added the piece that is not in the ATG deal: a Disney arrangement through TodayTix and the immersive company Secret Cinema, which has staged Grease and is launching a Pirates of the Caribbean production.
5. The Appraisal Fight
Endeavor was taken private with Silver Lake, and a record number of shareholders for a deal of that type filed appraisal claims, arguing they were underpaid. The case is still in Delaware. Faber asked where it stands and what happens if the judge agrees.
Shapiro started with the premium.
What the deal paid on the day
We're proud that Endeavor shareholders got a 60% premium when we signed the deal with Endeavor Silver Lake.
Mark Shapiro
And the multiple he says it set
we know our long-term stockholders are quite happy that they received the highest ever free cash flow multiple
Mark Shapiro
His account of the claimants is that they arrived after the fact.
He says the funds bought in to bring the case
a bunch of hedge funds piled in hoping they could make a case
Mark Shapiro
And the accusation he is prepared to make on air
In fact, when they piled in and did that, we believe they actually broke the law.
Mark Shapiro
How he expects it to end
We don't think Delaware is going to reward breaking the law, but we'll see what happens.
Mark Shapiro
Faber noted that a ruling against them is a potential liability, and asked when a decision might come. The answer was that they are on the court's calendar.
6. Netflix Is Still First
The interview was taped on Friday, and Faber had been on air that morning discussing a Netflix downgrade built on time spent not growing while YouTube takes share. He asked what the two of them see.
Emanuel rejected the framing outright, and answered it with the slate.
His test is what you open first
When we all go on streaming now, right, appointment, first one you plug in and look at is Netflix.
Ari Emanuel
He listed David Fincher's new film with Brad Pitt, Mosquito Bowl and the live football launch, and said the conversation makes no sense to him — a week earlier there had been an upgrade.
The category he puts Netflix in
They are appointment television. You have to check in with them.
Ari Emanuel
Shapiro dated the de-rating to the failed run at Warner Brothers.
The bid is what broke the stock, on his reading
Stocks never recovered when they went after Warner Brothers
Mark Shapiro
The question it planted, he said, is what Netflix thinks it is missing. His answer is nothing: premium long-form content, an advertising tier, a move into sports, and now influencers, podcasts and talk. TKO has WWE Raw on the service, which he called a completely new space for Netflix, on Monday nights and global, and said the international numbers are up significantly.
On the comparison with YouTube, he drew a line between the two products.
The two are not competing for the same minutes
Yes, YouTube's a great player. Yes, YouTube is mostly short form, by the way, and it's creator economy.
Mark Shapiro
Faber pressed the point that Reed Hastings' own competitor was time, and asked whether Netflix might move into news or buy something else — NBC is about to become its own public company, and Netflix had a deal to acquire Warner Brothers. The answers were that news is possible, and that Netflix does not run from competition.
7. The Paramount Blockade
Emanuel has been publicly against the state attorneys general, led by California, opposing the Paramount transaction. Faber asked whether a settlement is coming. Emanuel said he has no idea, then made the case.
Every theater chain has agreed to the deal, he said, and David Ellison has committed to 30 movies and 45-day theatrical windows.
The spending commitment he cites
170 series committing $30 billion
Ari Emanuel
California, he said, has been badly hurt over six years by the pandemic and the writers' strike, cable operators think the deal is good, and the European regulators are doing the buyer no favors either.
His reading of the merits
if you look at all the numbers, there's no monopoly
Ari Emanuel
What is left, on his account, is politics and CNN. His proposed remedy on CNN is a bipartisan editorial board so that the coverage the attorneys general complain about is dealt with directly.
What he says the delay is doing
it's absurd in the sense it's debilitating for the industry
Ari Emanuel
The TKO side's advice to the buyer was to get to the table, agree the remedies and move on, and the threat to pull Paramount out of California was dismissed rather than engaged with. Emanuel's objection to that threat is about the city: Los Angeles is a one-company town a hundred years in the making, and breaking it up in one move means fewer jobs and more confusion. Faber's own note was that the buyer has plenty of problems waiting on the other side of closing, starting with the debt.
8. What Four Leagues Cost
Faber closed on sports, and on whether franchise prices and television contracts ever stop climbing. Emanuel said he has heard the question since the early Endeavor days and that the trajectory has not changed, because sports is the one thing where nobody knows the ending.
Then he made the valuation argument, using a team price as the unit.
A single team is his benchmark for four leagues
if a one team is worth 12 and a half, I Mark will yank the chain on my leash when I say this, what is four leagues worth then?
Ari Emanuel
He was careful not to make it a straight claim that the stock is cheap — he said he does not want to be the chief executive who says that every day. He pointed instead at what is contracted.
The revenue already locked in
we have, I don't know, $15 billion worth of long-term contracts
Ari Emanuel
Shapiro closed it with their own money.
They just bought a piece of an NFL team
the two of us just bought in as limited partners in the Las Vegas Raiders at a pretty healthy valuation of $9.5 billion
Mark Shapiro
And what that is meant to signal
We're believers. It's all still going north.
Mark Shapiro
Bonus Insights
The rage question, answered by the other one
Faber ended on the book's opening subject, Emanuel's anger, and asked whether it has mellowed. Emanuel turned the question over to Shapiro, who said it has. This is not the man who ran around town at 30 threatening everyone, he said, but the energy has not gone anywhere.
And he's very curious. And that curiosity drives a lot of this high energy.
Mark Shapiro
What actually changed, in Emanuel's telling
The rage is still there. What changed is where he lets it out, and he credited his wife with the distinction.
And then I've realized also as my beautiful wife Sarah Staudinger, when you're not on the field, you should not be on the field.
Ari Emanuel
Asked directly whether his patience is better, he gave the shortest answer of the interview.
Barely. I wanted to interrupt you four times.
Ari Emanuel
Where Mari's money has already gone
Alongside the theaters, Emanuel listed a tennis portfolio, a collectibles business, an art fair and a car auction as the other live and participatory assets sitting in the private vehicle — "It's really all forms of culture, sports and entertainment," as it was put on the programme.
The bottom line from both of them is that the slowdown Wall Street is pricing at TKO is a first-half scheduling effect rather than a demand problem, and that the price of live rights is still going up — which is why their own next dollar went into an NFL team and 70 theaters rather than into anything that plays on a screen alone.
Products, Companies & Tools Mentioned
TKO Group Holdings (The public company the two of them run, holding UFC and WWE; $15 billion of long-term contracts and four leagues between the two brands)
Ambassador Theater Group (The 70-theater owner Mari has agreed to buy, in regulatory review in London and the US; venues in Germany, Spain, the West End and Broadway)
Netflix (The stock behind the downgrade Faber raised; Emanuel calls it appointment television, Shapiro dates the de-rating to the failed Warner Brothers approach, and WWE Raw runs there)
Warner Bros. Discovery (The acquisition attempt Shapiro says the Netflix share price never recovered from)
YouTube (The share-of-time comparison in the downgrade; Shapiro's answer is that it is mostly short form and creator economy, a different product)
Paramount (The transaction Emanuel is publicly backing against the state attorneys general, with commitments he puts at 30 movies, 45-day windows and 170 series; Paramount Plus also carries UFC)
Endeavor (Taken private with Silver Lake at what Shapiro calls a 60% premium and the highest ever free cash flow multiple; the appraisal claims are still in Delaware)
TodayTix and Secret Cinema (The immersive side that is not part of the ATG deal, now working with Disney on a Pirates of the Caribbean production)
Las Vegas Raiders (Emanuel and Shapiro bought in as limited partners at a valuation Shapiro gives as $9.5 billion)
Premier League (Shapiro's comparison for West End attendance last year)
Apple TV (Named as the competitor gaining traction with a slate beyond Ted Lasso and Severance)
Creative Artists Agency (Where Emanuel started under Bill Haber, and the office he wrecked on his way out belonged to Michael Ovitz)
Books & Resources Mentioned
The Tender Bar and Open – J.R. Moehringer (The writer Emanuel worked with on his memoir, whose other books he lists, including Shoe Dog for Phil Knight)
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